Talk:Columbia Timeline
1905 "A communist man by the name of Bill Howard is taken responsible for the riots and is assassinated by an unknown criminal" Hi, where did you find this information ? Cordially, BioshockWays 14:40, June 15, 2011 (UTC) I was just about to ask the same thing.Einsteinium99 20:34, August 30, 2011 (UTC) Reason for lack of citation for the 1901 section (Fink fire) I put up info about the 1901 Fink Fire. I remembered seeing a newspaper article about it in Industrial Revolution, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to put in citations.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) t19:35, December 30, 2012(UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~~~~. Most of us are aware of the issue with sourcing those newspaper articles, especially when they exist only in the Flash Game, and only appear once. One of us had figured something, but I think if anything, we might as well figure a way of sourcing those articles we can with what we have. --Evans0305 (talk) 05:40, December 31, 2012 (UTC) Industrial Revolution timeline So, I just pre-odered my copy of BioShock Infinite and started playing Industrial Revolution, and noticed that the fash mini-game has dated events (starting from 1900) that can be useful to the Columbia timeline page, so I decided to list them here. Just note that the game says that the events depend on your choices, but I'm not really sure that is true, since it's like 50 events and each time you can decide which faction to support. Anyway, I will keep that list in the discussion page in case those events are not considered to be cannon to the game's story, but feel free to correct it if I made editing mistakes or more simple errors. 1900 ;April 9, Monday :Worker #08-IZ9 starts working at Fink's Chronologically Precise Manufacturing and receives his written instructions from his superior, Foreman #08-2QI, but also a secret message from the Vox Populi asking him his help in smuggling out Fink's products for their cause. :Fink Manufacturing make their first batch of Broadsider guns to arm each of Columbia's police enforcers against the uprising of the Vox Populi, while the revolutionaries, describing themselves as mostly non-violent, start selling the smuggled weapons on the black market to finance their revolution. ;June 12, Tuesday :Fink make their second batch of Broadsider guns to continue arming the police, while the Vox Populi keep selling guns, but reports are made of some of them using the weapons to fire back at policemen. ;July 13, Friday :The third batch is achieved at the factory, and now the police forces are all armed with Broadsiders. To keep the balance, the Vox Populi officially starts arming themselves with the smuggled weapons instead of selling them. ;July 25, Wednesday :The fourth and last batch is made, as the police still requires more guns to wipe out the rebels, so do the Vox Populi who now decide to strike back hard on the policemen. ;August 15, Wednesday :Fink Manufacturing starts producing Bird's Eye riffles as requested by Chief Officer Jefferson Poole to improve police forces with snipers. On the contrary, the Vox Populi smuggles the riffles to keep the city's rooftops under their control. ;October 31, Wednesday :A second batch of Bird's Eyes is made, as police sniper training continues with the aim of arming and training each policemen. The rebels keep smuggling the riffles, intending to use their scope to spy on the activities of the Founders. :A fire erupts the evening at the N°42 factory building, which is set loose to avoid the flames from spreading to the rest of the factory, but condemning the workers trapped inside. Fink make a public statement to The Minuteman, declining that the new experimental Vigor Devil's Kiss being made in the concerned building was in cause, and instead plead on the product's safety, while attenuating the deaths of the workers and instead blaming the fire on some worker's error. On the contrary, the Vox Populi write in The Voice about the extreme suffering of the victims, and blame the whole incident on the Vigor's dangerousness and the insecurity of the laborers' working conditions. ;November 5, Monday :A third batch of riffle is produced after decorated officer and marksman Harrison Thacker has been appointed head of the new police sniper unit, but the Vox Populi fear the man as being dangerous and ambitious and continue smuggling riffles to keep him from getting any more. ;December 11, Tuesday :After Fink foremen loyal to their job received death threats, it has been decided that a group of sniper policemen headed by Thacker will patrol the factory day and night. A last batch of sniper riffles has been manufactured to equip them, but some of the weapons have been diverted to Dock 4 to be provided to the Vox Populi. 1901 ;January 1, Tuesday :A first production of a new lightweight rifle, the Huntsman, is manufactured at Fink. The same day, a violent clash occurs between Vox Populi militants and police forces at Finkton as the latter tried to prevent workers from distributing handbills. 1902 ;February 11, Tuesdsay :Fink starts manufacturing a new vigor, Bucking Bronco, to help the police manage group of dissidents. ;July 23, Wednesday :A strike occurs among the city's factories and paralyzes part of the production, but then turns into a brutal brawl between the workers and the police, leading to several round-up of insurgents, and death among the policemen. Vox Populi legal expert, John Goldman, calls for peaceful resolutions to avoid further violence. 1903 ;February 13, Friday :Production of Murder of Crows vigors starts at Fink Manufacturing, and Daisy Fitzroy reveals herself to the working class and the Founders as the leader of the Vox Populi. ;November 23, Monday :A bomb is discovered by the police forces following an anonymous tip and is revealed as belonging to the Vox Populi. However, several eyewitnesses declare having seen men dressed as police members placing the explosives before the arrival of the official investigation, leading to both camp accusing each other. 1904 ;January 8, Friday :Fink starts producing Possession vigors to help interrogate captured dissidents and having them turn on each other. ;April 26, Tuesday :The formula of the last batch of Possession leads many interrogation subjects going berserk. As the police ask for a new stable version, the insurgents smuggle some of the bad batch to turn the defective vigor to their advantage. ;June 1, Wednesday :Fink resumes production of the Barnstormer rocket launchers which were left on hold after the Boxer uprising. Vox Populi dissidents interpret it as an act of war against them. ;September 27, Tuesday :As the dissidents highjack shipping barges to disrupt the city's shipping network, police forces ask for more Barnstormers. In response, Vox Populi members smuggle out more of the rocket launchers to shoot down police gunships. 1905 ;March 16, Thursday : "Friday, June 23, 1905" "Tuesday, August 15, 1905" "Wednesday, October 4, 1905" 1906 "Thursday, February 1, 1906" "Wednesday, April 11, 1906" "Monday, September 3, 1906" "Tuesday, November 6, 1906" 1907 "Tuesday, January 15, 1907" "Monday, March 25, 1907" "Friday, May 17, 1907" "Thursday, November 28, 1907" 1908 "Monday, April 6, 1908" "Thursday, June 4, 1908" "Tuesday, August 25, 1908" "Wednesday, November 4, 1908" 1909 "Friday, January 22, 1909" "Wednesday, February 17, 1909" "Friday, May 7, 1909" "Saturday, May 8, 1909" "Sunday, May 9, 1909" "Monday, May 10, 1909" "Tuesday, May 11, 1909" "Wednesday, May 12, 1909" "Thursday, May 13, 1909" 1911 "Thursday, March 9, 1911" "Monday, June 26, 1911" "Tuesday, August 15, 1911" "Thursday, September 21, 1911" 1912 "Tuesday, January 23, 1912" "Wednesday, March 13, 1912" "Wednesday, May 22, 1912" "Thursday, July 4, 1912" "Tuesday, July 23, 1912" "Friday, August 9, 1912" "Wednesday, August 28, 1912" The list will be completed in the following days, I hope. As a note, I may also write the pages for the two papers, The Minuteman and The Voice, but I'm not sure I can get all the editions from my playthrough and those displayed on youtube, as you only get to see only one of them for each major event. Edit: I think I understand how you can get whether the Minuteman or the Voice paper, it always shows the one for the faction you support the less, like to convince you to change side. If that works, I might get all the transcripts for The Voice, and simply copy those of The Minuteman from this video playlist. -Pauolo (talk) 16:18, January 31, 2013 (UTC) So do we know for sure when anna was taken from Booker? Do we know for sure when Booker was recruited? I don't think it was 20 years later that booker was recruited. For all we know the Lutece twins drugged him and took him to columbia the day after Anna was taken, right? Bloody time travel. 1893 The date on Booker's desk in the post-credits scene is October 8, 1893, however - In part II of the Sea of Doors, when Booker wakes up in his office after handing over Anna to Lutece, Elizabeth reminds him that "twenty years ago" Lutece had offered Booker the chance to "wipe away the debt". Thus are set in motion the main events of the game, which we experience in Booker's "present" in Columbia, in 1912. Since the Dewitt we know first entered Columbia in 1912, Anna / Elizabeth then must have been born in 1892 or earlier - not on October 8, 1893 as indicated in the post. (Elizabeth herself in the game says that she is 20), Thus the possibilty that behind some door, Booker somehow survived the drowning. The Columbia city timeline in the game shows 1893 as the year that the "Lamb is Born Unto the Prophet", however by this time Elizabeth would have been close to a year old or more. 00:05, April 19, 2013 (UTC) Wounded Knee at 16 years old when army was limited, cut to the bone funding and there were plenty of better qualified veterans to get for the same money.. At some point you have to ask do they really care about what 'facts' they stitch togrther. Does "'who cares, it will be neat'" override any sense of having to adhere to history/logic/physical laws/reality ? Comstock gets funding from US Government for a 'flying city' - and we are off onto fantasyland -- why bother trying to explain anything connected to Real World from this point forward. "Pixie Dust" is the only explanation needed from here on.in......... When you have multiverse in the game, does a 'timeline' make any sense, or require some tree structure to represent the various divergences . The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 09:57, July 4, 2013(UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~~~~. Shouldnt this be put on a proper seperate article page (with appropriate disclaimer about its source....) ?? Have a link on this Columbia Timeline pointing to it .... Testxyz 07:19, August 22, 2013 (UTC) Of course all the IR stuff could be a different multiverse -- so nobody has to argue about discrepencies, as any seperate multiverse could have anything you want in it conflicting with all others and nobody can say 'that couldnt have happened" (very convenient mechanism - maybe the devs got sick of making game plots cohesive and consistant...) Testxyz (talk) 10:38, December 3, 2013 (UTC) Should Burial at Sea events be added to the timeline? I was just wondering if the events of Burial at sea should be added to this timeline, the rapture timeline or have its own timeline (once we know enough about the games plot). Roboxo3001 (talk) 17:27, August 2, 2013 (UTC) :That's a good question I'd prefer to answer once we know more about the first episode. :-/ :Pauolo (talk) 17:34, August 2, 2013 (UTC) :Alternate reality... Means nothing has to match. Probably a seperate timeline and possibly notations of divergances if some large chunks are retained from the original storyline. :Asuming anything earth shaking even happens (who knows, the least part of that 'episode' may hardly even be in Rapture) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 16:12, August 6, 2013 (UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~~~~. While Burial at Sea evidently occurs in Rapture, whether or not it actually takes place prior to the fall of Rapture as seen in Bioshock is yet to be seen. If we see/interact with characters from the first game (such as McDonagh, Steinman, Tenenbaum, etc.) then it probably should be added to the Rapture timeline. Until we know more, we should treat it as it is: upcoming/new material that we know very little about. Key of Destiny (talk) 16:53, August 6, 2013 (UTC) So why isn't this in the Rapture Timeline already? --Shacob (talk) 00:04, March 9, 2014 (UTC) : We should treat this carefully even if Burial at Sea Episode 2 is revealed. : Pawn of Atlas (talk) 05:39, March 9, 2014 (UTC) : . : If Elizabeth 'undoes' it all like in InfiniteBS, can it {BaS} really be part of any timeline ? : good points, lets wait untill the secend part comes out. Shacob (talk) 13:57, March 9, 2014 (UTC) Excised: "This event occurs just before Jack kills Kyle Fitzpatrick. In the original game, the player will hear Songbird's dying cries in the background as Fitzgerald is playing the piano. Moreso," Ehhh ? ........ I dont think so A bit tight on this timing 1893 ... ?? May 1 - October 30: ... designed by Rosalind and Robert Lutece, and funded by the U.S. government. the exposition started may 1 October 15: Rosalind Lutece welcomes her brother to her reality. So 'they' designed it by sending interdimensional emails to each other ?? "Tear' video conferencing ?? Design ,building, fixing, testing kinda take a bit of time and the Comstock 'things he did; schedule is even worse from Wounded Knee to Columbia flies. (he seems to have met Luteces AFTER he proposed the City of Columbia to the Congress .... SO no tears to get prophesies from before that ?? (or did he go back in time and mail letters to himself ?) Testxyz (talk) 22:57, December 21, 2013 (UTC) There's also the fact that it says that in October 8th Booker gave up Anna, and the Luteces met in the new dimension in October 15th, BUT we can clearly see Robert entering the same tear used to transport Anna into Comstock's reality, therefore he had to be familiar with it, as he doesn't seem to be shaken up by the change of universe as Booker is when he crossed the Tear at the beginning of the game. This is pretty confusing... 02:37, January 10, 2014 (UTC) They trapped themselves into this tight timeline sequence because they knew that even public school educated people would recognize 'Wounded Knee', and were aiming at 'the Columbian Exposition of 1893' as an obvious plot component. If it was a priority (to be logical) they could have implied some other (unknown) massacre several years earlier (make up a name and reinforce the Comstock 'legend' self-aggrandisement) to stretch the timeline and give a little more time for things to happen.... http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Columbian+Exposition+of+1893 (good pix) ^^^ looking at these pix you can see alot of asset styles/ideas they took almost directly. Testxyz (talk) 08:54, January 10, 2014 (UTC) For some reason, I was reminded of this scene from Ghostbusters II: ZanyDragon (talk) 03:16, April 27, 2014 (UTC) Having the Titanic docked in Columbia... Maybe the Columbia can submerge like Atlantis in Stargate... That quantum stuff can do anything you want you know. Across at least 122 different realities, none of Booker's attempts are successful. "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" -Albert Einstein Its too bad they missed this whole angle of the story that in reality it was the Luteces (and their insanity) which cause all the bad things to happen. Blaming Luteces is like blaming Gman, both Gman and Luteces are nuetral who tries to warn the player about impeding dooms. Booker quite simply, is a moron. Half Life tells a similar tale of morons. $tar Butterfly (talk) 20:06, July 5, 2015 (UTC) :Let me tell this to you simply $tar Butterfly. You are wrong. Plain and Simple. In Half Life the Resonance Cascade was deliberately causes by the G-Man in order to create a situation where someone would go to kill Nihilanth. He even GAVE Black Mesa the crystal that caused the RC. In Half Life 2 the G-Man was hired again (Likely by the Vorts) to take out Breen and he sent Gordon Freeman to do it. He was ANYTHING but a neutral party and a great example if a Chessmaster. As for the Lutces they are the ones that kept going and getting different Booker's to travel to Columbia. They are certainly NOT neutral by any means either as they are trying to destroy all the Comstocks that ever existed. In fact much of what happened was their fault as they gave Comstock the tools to do everything. And Booker has ZERO way of knowing about these other Booker's until he gets to Columbia, so how can be accused of repeating the same actions over and over again? That's irrational. BSI and Half Life are tales of people being manipulated and used by powers much greater than themselves. So please stop it with the insults, because they make you look bad, not the characters. sm --Solarmech (talk) 13:17, July 6, 2015 (UTC) ::Solarmech is right here, both the G-Man and the Luteces interfered in those games' events to get to their own end. They only observe to see if the results are going their way. It's different than the Outsider from Dishonored, who only gives powers to people to witness the outcome but does not choose it. Pauolo (talk) 14:33, July 6, 2015 (UTC) ::Boy, I've forgotten about this page because I thought people are smart enough to know both Gabe Newelle HIMSELF and Ken Levine stated NUMEROUS of times in their statements that both Gman and the Luteces are nuetral. Sadly people are on their "moral high horses" like annoying Social Justice warriors and Deluded Feminists today. Brains just can't be included when subjective topics like morality comes to human's heads. ::Tell me.... Do you actually support Black Mesa scientists who owned their own private company to just trust a government official, a complete and total stranger with no background in astronomy and physics, a creep in a blue suit, and give them an other worldly crystal with unknown elements and then ask WHY they should do these kinds of projects in the FIRST PLACE? I mean, they REALLY don't have to do this, Black Mesa is it's own private business. Sure their employer is the Military, but that doesn't mean they should risks their lives sheerly for the sake of money and expansion. ::Even with the obvious red flags, Black Mesa employers still do what they do just to compete in teleportation technology advances against Apeture Science, another rival privately own business company that went CRAZY because of their OWN choices. ::Also, the Luteces and Gman may share similar traits in their powers, but not in social skills. Gman has no background story which means we will never know Gman used to be Human, but the Luteces do. Their "Revenge" is far less sinister then Comtock's "Burn the world" ideology. The Luteces were killed by Comstock, but before this, Comtock already killed many... ah yes, MANY of his witnesses and friends that question the origin of the baby AND his odd past where Comstock just seem to just.. POP out in thin air in 1893. ::They obtain these powers not to burn the world like Comstock, but simply to study it, They didn't Create Comstock, he just turned emo and say "Hey, I won't be freaking emo anymore, I'll just say SCREW EVERYONE ELSE" and then use his daughter to invade Earth in the 1980s causing his own envisioned apocalapse. ::So tell me again without going into "Morality is important" mode... how is it their fault again? Seem to me Everything Gman and Luteces done, is to berid of douchebags that think their causes and activism is important without realizing Justice is just forms of NEVER ending vengeance. ^_^ $tar Butterfly (talk) 07:32, December 24, 2015 (UTC) Clipped content (from 1912) : "Due to this, the Rapture that depended on Columbia's combined research developments would, logically speaking - also cease to exist or at the very least end up developing in an entirely different way due to the lack of Fink & Suchong's efforts. The Rapture from the original ''Bioshock ''would be the self-sustaining one where Columbia never existed. A good point but unfrotunately the wiki gods didnt like that being inserted there. Still a good point (really part of the 'Rapture' is Prime kerfluffle that Levine started ). Infinite means in at least one 'reality' Suchong is an artificially intelligent Epstein the Swami machine (or insert something equally strange) and Rapture is actually a donut floating in a cup of coffee in some universe populated by microbes " No Gods or Kings - Only MICROBES!!!!" Science Fiction authors long ago learned to shy away from the whole 'infinite universe' mess..... All Columbia’s Erased There seems to be a LOT of confusion about whether all Columbia’s were erased due to Booker and Elizabeth’s actions. The answer is a little complicated, but it’s yes. Elizabeth’s goal in Burial at Sea Episode 1 was to kill the Last Comstock. She states this early on in Episode 2 "I felt everything that every version of me felt. All of that knowledge, it... I lost a pinky. But that version of me, she lost everything! And Comstock -- that final Comstock -- he thought he could avoid his guilt by coming here.". Now Episode 2 does make things a little murky because Elizabeth visits a Columbia, it’s either the same one as we play through in the main game or a very similar one. The question here is “If all the Columbia’s were erased how can Elizabeth visit it?” The answer deals with the nature of time in the BSI games. And in BSI “All thing happen at once and when something happens is relative.” So while Columbia was erased, it also still exists depending on when you are looking. This situation is the result of the Grandfather Paradox created by killing Booker at the Last Baptism. As I like to say “Columbia no longer exists, but since it existed at one time it will always exist, even if it no longer exists.” Another way to put it is that Columbia exists in the past. So you can visit Columbia in the past, but only up to a certain point. The Columbia realities are dead ends that will probably cease to exist when Booker and Elizabeth leave for the Sea of Doors. That would be when the “ripple effect” of Columbia’s erasure would “catch up” to it. In Old Elizabeth’s reality it would catch up when Booker was sent back to 1912. Something else to remember is that Booker and Elizabeth HAVE to erase all the Columbia realities (make them no happen). If they fail, humanity in every reality is doomed as Columbia will start hopping realities and destroying them. (Stated by Elizabeth in Comstock House). It is the stated goal of a number of different Elizabeth’s that are more or less omniscient. Old Elizabeth who came up with the plan did so after getting the syphon destroyed/turned off. With all that power at their disposal, it’s rather hard believe they “missed” a Columbia created by Comstock. A very important indicator that all the Columbia’s were erased is Elizabeth’s reaction to returning to Columbia. Which is basically “I didn’t think I would be back so soon.” She at no point is worried/upset about the fact that Columbia still exists. She was much more surprised that Suchong was watching her and Booker. Of course Elizabeth visits Columbia in the “past” during the Vox Revolt. There is even a TV Trope for this called Delayed Ripple Effect. You can see in the Back to the Future movies. ;) And let’s get rid of a bad assumption some people have, there are not infinite Comstock’s and Columbia’s. Just a very very large number. There could be an infinite number of alternate realities, but no place is it said an infinite number of Comstock’s (Just a million million). Now there does exist the possibility that Columbia’s still exists. These Columbia’s would either have to be created by a Booker who didn’t attend the Baptism or by one who rejected it. All evidence though points to Booker only becoming Comstock as a result of not rejecting the Baptism. However it seems likely that the Elizabeth’s would know about it if there such a Columbia existed and taken steps to prevent its creation. Another way for a Columbia to exist is for it to be created by someone other than Booker/Comstock. The original plot for BSI had someone else as Comstock and him not being an alternate of Booker. In fact that early version of Booker knew Comstock as both were are at Wounded Knee. Now this different Columbia *could* avoid being seen by Elizabeth as she would not have been looking for it. So I think the most accurate way to put it with the info we have now would be “The events of BioShock Infinite, as well as the construction and very existence of Columbia, are erased from the multiverse due to Booker DeWitt and Elizabeth's actions. While Burial at Sea has Elizabeth visit a version of Columbia, this visit takes place before the erasure of the Columbia timelines.” sm --Solarmech (talk) 12:53, December 7, 2015 (UTC) The theory they based this fantasy on (and has constant contradiction with) says that new realities spring into existence progressively at every possible decision point (actual theory is branch at every random quark shift). In any case, who says that Elizabeth even knows anything except her delusion. So Evil Columbia will hop between realities eventually dooming everything ?, EXCEPT that the realities expand infinitely faster then it can hop (ditto with the number of existing Comstocks). So they never will. And Who says she is all-seeing? How would she/they know ? Its just more delusion. The theory says NOTHING about 'going back', just a forward progression (and any seeming timetravel might be explained by you just going to a dimension where events were delayed (their are infinite of infinites involved here) and being seperate are not relevant to any one you return too (unless the perps THERE decide to start sidestepping - now infinite numbers of them actually). They might meddle in those one by one, but the existance of all the others spawn off infinitely constantly and they will reach almost zero of all of them. (and thats not counting the possibility they blunder into a dimension that ends THEM or one where one of THEIR clones collides with them or because of brownian motion all their synaps take a left turn and they stop and take up macrame). So its really a story about selfish revenge - she (an ADAM addled brain now OR is it anesthetically brain damaged) dooms Rapture to save one child she only thinks will be saved - only a further delusion. It is taking place in some tiny nearly zero corner of the INFINITE and all the rest goes on as before, as they had, as they will, as they always will. Nothing is ever 'erased'. The story is illogical fantasy and THAT is all you can really say about it, other than constantly saying 'this here is my speculation'... 17:04, December 7, 2015 (UTC) A tear big enough to take Columbia through? Probably would instantly damage/kill every cell in everyone aboard's body (and disintegrate portions of Columbia to boot) leaving only a wrecked ghost city emerging on the other side (plummeting groundward) - NOW THATS good storytelling. Luteces hold up the cards 9.9 and 9.8 .... Dont forget the Luteces who supposedly are trying to stop the mayhem, but seem to make it worse? Wont the next Booker (or robot terminator or whomever) they will find will be coming (injected into the revised plot) to kill the crazy Elizabeth who is just the new Comstock and HE now in turn becomes the new Comstock ... etc etc etc .... And the paradox rolls around another cycle infinitely.... 17:19, December 7, 2015 (UTC) Wow. Did you even PLAY the game? Or do you just ignore what is stated in game in favor of your own beliefs. Oh wait, you DO ignore the facts in favor of you own beliefs. Lets just look at this first line to show how far you are off the mark. "The theory they based this fantasy on (and has constant contradiction with) says that new realities spring into existence progressively at every possible decision point (actual theory is branch at every random quark shift)." It is stated VERY clearly in game that new realities are NOT created at every possible decision point. Some (possibly most) "decisions points" are not in fact decision points at all as they ALWAYS result in the same outcome. They are Constants. I mean they demonstrate this in the game (the coin flip always coming up one side) and Elizabeth flat out EXPAINS the concept of Constants and Variables while she and Booker are in the Sea of Doors. Heck, even many Variables even are differences that don't make much of a difference in the end result. If you can't get such basic things down right, why are you wasting everyone's time? If anyone has any objections based on real info please post them. If not, I will put up the chance sometime tomorrow. sm --Solarmech (talk) 01:03, December 8, 2015 (UTC) Perhaps you miss the whole point of the infinite universe thing. The coin flip thing ONLY indicates that this particular timeline with THESE Luteces have resulted in their seeing the coin flip one way over and over. Thats just ONE path in INFINITE others where every combination under the sun has happened. Infinite universes with infinite Bookers/Elizabeths/Luteces. They (these ones) perceive it the way THEY WOULD in THEIR existance only which apparently had the coin flip one way. Same with Elizabeth - who ONLY can see the timelines shes been on -- constants and variables - apparently only what she's seen and thinks is reality (see below). BTW No real theory ANYWHERE says ANYTHING about dimensional gods or all-seeing people flitting between dimensions being such, so all WE HAVE TO GO ON is what we see ourselves in the game and anything anyone "says" can be only what THEY think they saw along their trajectory (which excludes everything ELSE that WASNT on that path - infinitely large EVERYTHING ELSE). Who stated this mechanism you base your opinion on ???? - the very people/characters Ive just explained have their own limited observations and opinions about THEIR reality. Its called "Infinite". "Infinite" is the supposed theory. If they dont want to be consistant, then they should have called it "Bioshock We-Made-Up-Whatever-We-Wanted". WE SEE other Elizabeths so she's not a constant, we see different Booker/Comstocks - so they aren't a constant, we see universe/dimensions that its implied dont all have Columbia in them, A Lighthouse? I see not 'a' but some weird vision of infinite lighthouses all in the same place --- so it seems Elizabeth really doesn't know what she is talking about (or its just vague gibberish) - right there in front of your face if you bother to look. Its that simple. It all exists, continues to exist, no matter the meddling or delusion. Here is even a simpler reasoning. IF Columbia is supposed to have ceased to exist when THAT Booker was drowned, then the same logical consistancy should apply to Elizabeth (who is a direct result of THAT convoluted existance of THAT Booker) which WE are shown IN GAME by the last scenes in the game (ocean of Lighthouses/trip to Rapture) isn't true. Thus if Elizabeth doesnt cease to exist then neither should Booker X and your pronouncement is contradicted, thus incorrect. The most you can say is you aren't sure what happens. 17:52, December 15, 2015 (UTC)